WELCOME LISTENERS

[00:00:00] Paul Neal: Hey listeners welcome today to the Entrepreneurial Agent Podcast. Here I’ve got the distinct pleasure and honor of, of, of speaking with today, Robert . He is a real estate agent here in the Hampton Roads area. Focuses with buyer sellers and investors, and we’re gonna learn from him today what’s working in the market.

[00:00:18] Paul Neal: What’s changed in the. And really how to position yourself to to win today if you’re an agent. So, hey Robert. Thanks for coming on the show, man. Oh man, my 

[00:00:27] Robert Keilman: pleasure. Thanks for having me. 

[00:00:29] Paul Neal: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So tell us a little bit I don’t think, you probably weren’t born a real estate agent, so tell us kind of how you got here, man,

[00:00:37] Paul Neal: Oh, that’s 

[00:00:38] Robert Keilman: a good question. So well, the truth be told, I started off in the, in the Navy. I did 20 years in the Navy and Hampton Roads is where my final duty station was. And I got into real estate because I had a really good friend of mine that had also retired from the military and. He helped me buy my first house and I just [00:01:00] really enjoyed the process of you know, start to finish.

[00:01:03] Robert Keilman: I, I’ve always enjoyed sales processes, even with vehicles, you know, when I went and bought vehicles and I just thought to myself this was something that I would really like to do and see myself doing long term post Navy. And so, you know, rest is history here I am now as an agent. . 

[00:01:23] Paul Neal: So you’re happy with that?

[00:01:24] Paul Neal: Oh, 

[00:01:24] Robert Keilman: absolutely, man. I could never see myself doing any other job besides real estate. It’s just, it’s great. 

[00:01:31] Paul Neal: Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s, that’s awesome. I know, I know for top producers like we have on the show that they’re, they’re all sort of cut from the same cloth in that sense in terms of the freedom and flexibility gives you the unlimited opportunity to serve people and really create the kinda lifestyle that you want.

[00:01:47] Paul Neal: Right? 

[00:01:48] Robert Keilman: Absolutely. . So one of the things that it’s great about this job is because it’s commission only. There’s no maximum amount of money you can make. But there’s also no [00:02:00] minimum. So , right? It really depends on you, you know, So if you are willing to go out there and drum up business and do the hard work that some people.

[00:02:11] Robert Keilman: Wanting to do or don’t know to do then I, I can’t see any reason why you wouldn’t be successful. It’s funny, real quick. One of my, my team leader and I always have this discussion when it comes to certain members of our peers, you either a hunter or you’re a gatherer. So you either wait around for somebody to give you something or you go out there and you try to earn it.

[00:02:30] Robert Keilman: So we always try to keep a hunter mindset going out there and trying to drum our business for yourself. Cause at the end of the. Everybody else will do what’s in their best interest so they can get it, get business and, and serve their clients. Whether you survive in the game or not, that is gonna be completely on you and you only have yourself to blame at the end of the day if it doesn’t.

[00:02:49] Robert Keilman: So, I dunno, that’s kind of harsh words, but I think they’re kind of, they kind of ring true based on my experience. . 

[00:02:56] Paul Neal: Well, I think you’re right, man. A lot of people get in the real estate [00:03:00] game because they see the, you know, the bling, the opportunity and like we said, that lifestyle, the opportunity to set your own schedule and, and live and, and they look at the, you know, the kind of commissions and things you can make.

[00:03:11] Paul Neal: But like you said, there’s definitely a flip side to it. And, you know, our, this whole podcast is geared around the, you know, I call it the entrepreneurial agent because, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re as an, you’re an entrepreneur, you’re in business for yourself. You might work for a brokerage and you might be a real estate agent, but like you said, if you’re not turning lead into gold out there every day, you know, you know, creating things, making things happen, which is what every business owner and entrepreneur does, then, then it’s not a good fit, and you’re not gonna be.

[00:03:40] Paul Neal: No, and it seems like, you know, when you look at the numbers, the numbers that I see, like Pareto’s principle, I, I think, you know, the 80 20 rule with real estate agents, it’s you know, the top, you know, small percentage, you know, 5%, 10% really make most of the money and build the careers while the, [00:04:00] the, the bulk of the rest of them are just kind of, you know, in it, but, but aren’t really all in it.

[00:04:07] Paul Neal: Right? 

[00:04:08] Robert Keilman: Yeah. I think. There, there is a, a greater degree of flexibility with when you get into this this job field as far as your time, but you have to understand the, there’s, there’s always a, a context to that. So what I mean by that is your time is your client’s time. So when your client gets outta work at 4, 4 30 and they’re ready to see a house, You know, I understand that your kid just got off the bus, but it’s time to make deals happen when your clients have the availability to, to make those deals happen.

[00:04:45] Robert Keilman: So do you have to necessarily go out and show homes? No. You can, you can say no, and you can, you know, go about your day, but do it enough times and that potential buyer of yours. We’ll find an agent that does have [00:05:00] time for ’em. I see it all the time. And that’s the thing, that’s the, that’s the work that you have to put in at the end of the day is you can get that flexibility and you can get that, you know, in time and you can get that money, but it’s gotta be earned and it’s gotta be, it’s gotta be based on your client’s needs too.

[00:05:18] Robert Keilman: So I, I mean I think that’s like the biggest thing I gotta let people know and something that, that sometimes they have to. Experience for themselves when they get into this business is, is your, your first and foremost you know focus has to be on your client care 100% all the time, and usually when it’s most, most convenient for them.

[00:05:39] Robert Keilman: Sorry, trailing off here, but some 

[00:05:42] Paul Neal: of myself. No, it’s a good. You know. No, no, it’s a good, it’s a good point because, yeah, I mean, you’re, a lot of your clients are full-time, They work full-time jobs, right. So they can’t go see houses in the middle of the day while you’re running around doing your other things.

[00:05:55] Paul Neal: And so it, it, that’s a bit of an adjustment for people for sure. Getting into the [00:06:00] business and realizing that your schedule’s almost flipped. With the rest of the world. Like your, your weekends, you’re serving clients. Right. Whereas typically before, if you had a nine to five or your weekends, you’re like, you know, it’s, I’m free, do what I want.

[00:06:12] Paul Neal: And not necessarily the case. No. 

[00:06:14] Robert Keilman: Not even vacations. . 

[00:06:17] Paul Neal: Yeah. Right. Vacations. What about we were talking before we hit record, we’re talking about sort of the change in the shift in the market. And so you’ve been in this business for, for quite a while. What, what do you see, what do you see as a shift in terms.

[00:06:30] Paul Neal: What, what expectations should people looking to buy or sell real estate today, you know, how should they shift their mindset right 

[00:06:38] Robert Keilman: now? That’s a great question. So you can, I know this is stuff you can, I hate to like send to Google, but, you know, Google historical interest rates and I think Freddie Mack has a, you know, a chart there and.

[00:06:53] Robert Keilman: Interest rates from the historical low in 2021. Now, understand historical low, [00:07:00] I think that average was right around what, 2.2%? Something like that. Historic low. And what’s the historic high? Was it what in the 83 or so? It was like, Yeah. Close to what? 16%. I, I don’t know, something really crazy like that.

[00:07:14] Robert Keilman: So you gotta look at the spread. Historically, since you know they started tracking mortgage interest rates. So if we’re trailing into the sevens now, is that the lowest historical low? No, it’s not historical low. Certainly not historical high, but we have to adjust what could be a new normal. I have theories as to how high this interest rates will go, but those.

[00:07:41] Robert Keilman: My thoughts and my theories, you know, so but I would say is if you’re waiting around for those historical interest rates, you’re gonna wait yourself into the grave because , we have to also understand the reasons why we had low interest rates to begin with. Then that’s another story, and you don’t have enough time in this podcast for that.

[00:07:59] Robert Keilman: So , [00:08:00] 

[00:08:01] Paul Neal: Yeah, well it’s, you know, if you, if you look. If you go back all the way to the sixties, cuz for sure in the eighties that, that we hit the peak there, the early eighties with particularly the arms and things and you know, I think 18 something percent was the high, but historically the average is right around 7.7%.

[00:08:20] Paul Neal: Okay. Interestingly enough. Yeah. So, so yeah. And, and as you said, 20, you know, 2021. Tho those interest rates were not just historically low. They were abnormally low. Yeah. And, and, and, and, and something we’ll, we’ll probably never see again and quite frankly, hope that we never do because it creates a lot of secondary negative effects.

[00:08:42] Paul Neal: And you know, because along with that, the, the, the, the property appreciation, the demand was so high. That’s completely unsustainable in the long. and you know, that was driven a lot by by super super mo interest rates and many would argue negative interest [00:09:00] rates when you factor in the real inflation rate.

[00:09:01] Paul Neal: So, so there’s a shift, right? You gotta make a, you gotta, you gotta think differently if you’re a buyer or a seller today based on that. 

[00:09:09] Robert Keilman: Yeah, absolutely. So the, you can’t wait around for historical interest rates cuz they’re not coming back. Okay. So if, if, if we, we look at the. If the historical data, and we’re, and the sevens are pretty much, we’re gonna draw the line as the average, that’s what you’re gonna have to expect.

[00:09:26] Robert Keilman: So the only difference is, is the affordability range of folks. It doesn’t mean because that interest rates are higher, that people’s wages are also increasing, you know, in, in, in, in, in tune with inflation. That’s not what’s happening here. So I’m seeing, and I’m sure a lot of people are seeing this, the intro price ranges to certain cities are still very competitive for buyers.

[00:09:52] Robert Keilman: Mm-hmm. . So let’s just, let’s just take a nice little, you know, number here and say, let’s say if buyer [00:10:00] a, you know, had, could afford a mortgage at 2.5% for $350,000 property. Well now that it’s 7%. He can’t afford that $350,000 property more. It’s more like a $300,000 property he can afford. So, you know, it’s just one of those things where you know, the people’s price points are gonna drop, and then wherever that intro price point is, you’re just gonna have a lot of competition.

[00:10:27] Robert Keilman: So the best qualified people in those price points are the ones they’re gonna win, especially with low inventory in the markets. So, 

[00:10:36] Paul Neal: Yeah. And that, and that’s, and that inventory situation is not really improving, right? I mean, on the higher end market maybe. Yeah. But it, you know, you, going back to the low interest rates, I mean, if you, if you just bought your house or refinanced your house two years ago at two and a half percent or 3%, I believe the number is in the neighborhood of 35% of mortgages are sub 3% right now.

[00:10:59] Paul Neal: Geez. [00:11:00] So, , you have to have a real compelling reason to want to sell that house. Right, And to. Right. So cuz why am I gonna go from a, you know, 3% or less mortgage into a six and a half or, or whatnot, you know, just to move across town because I, you know, I, I need a little bit more space, or I just like it a little better.

[00:11:21] Paul Neal: I mean, it’s gotta be a real compelling reason to go on the market, right? So 

[00:11:25] Robert Keilman: I, in my experience when people go to buy things, and this is just based on my sales background and whatnot, is buyers make buying decisions based on pain or pleasure. Okay. Either I need a four bedroom bad because now I have all these kids, so , so they, they’re gonna have to buy another house, you know?

[00:11:45] Robert Keilman: Or it’s pleasure. You know, I really wanted a house with a pool and a jacuzzi and a sauna, and about a boathouse. Okay, now you’re talking about a, a wand, not necessarily something you really need. So the more motivated a [00:12:00] buyer is, I typically find is those are buying based on. Those that need to buy. Now, those that are buying UR luxury properties, they’re gonna only look for the deals right now.

[00:12:10] Robert Keilman: Cuz why wouldn’t you? Because there’s plenty of properties in the luxury space that are seeing price reductions, , mm-hmm. , so, Right. Not necessarily again on that, on that intro price range in, in certain locations. So, but the, the luxury market is, is essentially being affected. I can see that. I can see the, the drop.

[00:12:29] Robert Keilman: In prices too. So but yeah, it’s you’re not gonna get as many people wanting to list the house because they don’t want to get out of that low mortgage rate. But despite, I’m, I think when it comes down to needs, people are still going to do it. It’s still gonna keep moving. 

[00:12:45] Paul Neal: I think Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[00:12:47] Paul Neal: For sure. So there’s still, there’s still gonna be demand and you’ve got, you’ve got, you talk about the lower end, I mean, the higher end, Let’s be honest, when, you know, higher end luxury market, when you, we’ve seen, you know, 20 plus percent appreciation, you know, per year, [00:13:00] for the last couple of years, there’s a lot of margin, a lot of fat in there for some reduction in prices.

[00:13:04] Paul Neal: Mm-hmm. . But on that entry level piece, You know, you’ve got this whole, this whole like demographic wave of, of millennials, right, that are in the, the buying. They’re sort of reaching now their first time buying age, and that is a huge, huge demographic move into wanting to buy a home because they’re getting married now.

[00:13:24] Paul Neal: Finally, they’re starting to have a family and and they also realize now, hey, I might be able to work from home some versus having to go in. And so I want some space. I don’t wanna be stuck in this tiny little a. , you know? Right. So you’re gonna have tremendous demand still on the lower end for, I don’t know how, you know, for the long foreseeable future, in my opinion.

[00:13:45] Robert Keilman: I think you’re, you’re, you’re getting into something that’s you know, Very true. And one of the things that we saw in the pandemic was that a lot of people are changing the way they. Came to realize that businesses come to realize I don’t need this big [00:14:00] office space for all these employees because I can have them work remotely and then they can come and, and, and meet up with me, you know, once a month on site.

[00:14:09] Robert Keilman: And so people now working from home need that extra office space to you know, conduct their work and whatnot. and you’re seeing migrational patterns. I’m, I’m getting into the weeds here, but you’re seeing migrational patterns from different, you know, high earning areas coming to lower earning areas where.

[00:14:30] Robert Keilman: Let’s say $500,000 house in New York versus a $500,000 house in Virginia Beach. It’s like night and day , right? But, but it’s causing those prices to surge as well. So everything from the affordability mm-hmm. , I think to the mid level at least in my market, I’m saying it’s still pretty competitive. 

[00:14:48] Paul Neal: So, And yeah.

[00:14:49] Paul Neal: And then, and the, and the quality of life for those people is so much better. Right? Leaving a, like a, like a New York where you’re living in a one bedroom apartment for 500,000 versus a, a really nice home in Virginia Beach, right. For [00:15:00] for half a million. . Yeah, absolutely. You can have a dog in a backyard and you know, if you’re into that sort of thing as he probably have a 

[00:15:06] Robert Keilman: pool too, you 

[00:15:07] Paul Neal: know,

[00:15:08] Paul Neal: That’s right, that’s right. You can have a pool. Yeah. That’s, that’s pretty cool. So You know, So in terms of, you know, the changing market, and again, you’ve been in this for a while, you had a successful Navy career. What are some things that, that you’re doing right now, two or three things, Robert, that are helping you to stay productive, You know, going through this transition and you know, what, what you, what’s, what’s helping you to not only survive, but to thrive?